| Collection | Winstanley Oral History Collection |
| Description | Mr. T. Clout, born 1894, interviewed in Ashford. His father worked as a tube brazier in Ashford works, his mother took washing in. His jobs were errand boy, gardener and painter. (Mrs interupts). Mrs. F. Clout, born 1902, interviewed in Ashford. Her father was a pawnbroker and later a furnisher retailer. Her mother died in 1910 and came from a family of three girls and two step sisters. (Mr. interupts).
Track 1 [1:24:51] [Session 1: interview: 17th November 1975] [00:00:00] Introduction: interview of Mr T. Clout [TC] and Mrs. F. Clout [FC] at 110 Christchurch road, Ashford, Kent by Michael Winstanley of the University of Kent at Mr. and Mrs. Clout’s home on 17th of November 1975. [0:00:35] TC born in Willesborough, January 1894. [0:00:59] Recalls his time at school. [0:02:00] Comments on when he left school, when his brother left and why. [0:02:40] comments on having to take dinner to a worker. [0:03:13] Describes the errands children had to run, taking washing with a special car, and who had their washing done, and who did it. [0:04:03] TC says how much a girl was paid, what she did, how many people did washing, that only rich people could afford to get their washing sent out. [0:05:11] TC remembers how long people lived. [0:05:40] Remarks on how old people lived and people who would come around their houses with bread, flour and how much they were paid. [0:06:32] TC mentions it did not affect his father who died at 63 of a stroke and how much old people were paid. [0:06:58] TC describes in detail what labourers and tradesmen were paid before the 1914 war, about 27 bob a week. [0:07:56] TC says how much they were paid after the war- 16 Shillings and 6 pence war bonus on top of wages, remarks that it was good pay, then remarks how much farm labourers were paid. [0:08:28] TC points out that being well off depended on the father then describes people’s drinking habits, taking weeks off for being drunk and being afraid to go back to work. [0:09:02] TC describes how people used to go into work and being afraid they would be sacked. He says his father did it. [0:09:45] TC says some people saved their money and that blacksmiths, coppersmiths and painters used to earn more than a semi-skilled or labourer. [0:10:21] FC comments that people drank so much because there was nothing else to do. [0:10:38] TC says after the war workers went on short time- in the 1930s men were on a 4 day week. [0:11:09] TC says he does not remember strikes, he only read about miners. [0:11:34] TC gives a detailed description of school kids’ behaviour towards union men coming to school to empty lavatories at Willesborough school. [0:12:50] TC comments on whether Willesborough was a rough place. [0:13:13] TC says fathers in the majority of Willesborough and Ashford worked in railway works building engines and carriages. [0:13:36] Comments on what hours father worked- 6 A.M to 5 P.M. and 1:00 on Saturdays. After the war, from 7:30-12:00 and 1:00-5:00 on Saturdays. [0:14:16] TC recalls his first job at a shop and what he had to do, chopping wood, cleaning currants and taking bread and groceries around through Broomfields into Hinxhill. [0:16:14] TC gives detailed explanation of how he was paid, how much and of being sacked for asking for a raise. [0:17:37] TC talks about doing gardening work for a man called Fitzhugh and what the man did, then what the job involved. [0:18:18] TC talks of joining the territorials at 16-17 then going to France during the first war, and talks about tea. [0:20:29] TC explains how much he was paid for the gardening job, about other jobs he did including wagonbuilder and blacksmith. He gives a detailed description of how he built tires at a place called Heathfield. [0:22:53] TC continues to talk about what work he did and where until the beginning of the war broke out, and how much he got paid for those jobs. [0:24:43] TC Talks about Heathfields, and recalls more of his work history until the war. [0:25:34] TC talks about his job from 1921 to 1969 as a painter [0:26:02] TC talks about Knock and having a temporary job at a gas company. [0:27:09] TC talks about the available work conditions in the 1930s. [0:27:33] TC explains how he heard of his first job and how he transferred jobs. [0:29:10] Description of what his friends did for work and that they also joined the army for the war. [0:30:01] TC explains in detail how his friends’ military service worked and how it impacted their work. [0:31:54] TC talks about how people spent their free time in Willesborough and talks about allotments, who ran them and for how long. [0:33:20] Detailed description of the garden TC had and the plum trees he had. [0:34:15] Tc mentions that people kept rabbits for food, that they were easy to buy, explains where they could be bought then continues to talk about rabbits. [0:36:40] FC born on 20th June 1902 in Gillingham. [0:37:00] FC gives detailed description of her father’s job as a pawnbroker, first as an apprentice, then a manager, then starting his own business. [0:38:07] Description of the terrible premises and what the pawnbroker shop sold, clothing and jewellery, new men’s clothing, as well as a description of the front shop display. [0:39:55] FC mentions the shop’s working hours being 8.00AM to 8.00 PM with half a day on Wednesday. [0:40:25] Description of lamps outside the shop. [0:40:57] Description of hearing the butcher’s yelling and mention of selling meat very cheaply on Saturdays. [0:42:04] Detailed description of how ice was brought to the butchers and how lack of refrigeration led to a lot of cheap meat. [0:43:29] FC recalls hating her father’s nickname and the lines of people waiting outside the pawnbrokers to exchange their father’s suits for the children’s school shoes. [0:45:04] FC says her father’s trade was good and mentions buying a doctor’s house and turning it into a furnishing shop alongside pawnbrokers and mentions the business still runs. [0:46:46] Detailed description of how pawnbroking works, detailed description of pawnbrokers’ pins. [0:49:08] Mention of two boys being hired at the pawnbrokers and their jobs. Mentions one of them joining the first war, also mentions details of their family. [0:50:50] Detailed description of the living arrangements of the boys, sleeping on the counter, meals prepared for them. Mention of the boys being very hungry. [0:53:40] FC mentions her mother’s death in 1910 and her father’s treatment of her and her sisters. [0:55:04] Small mention of her father’s family conditions, description of her mother’s tuberculosis and the treatment for TB. [0:58:20] FC talks of a housekeeper, of her dad paying big school fees and her sisters’ dates of birth. [1:00:36] FC speaks of being in Convent school, detailed description of her earliest memory, cycling club at the weekend, recollection of having her hair done. [1:02:46] FC recalls a head injury her father had, that people were not taken to the hospital those days. [1:03:26] FC her father going to see a shop, hoping to take it and turn it into a pawnbrokers. Mentions it was previously an undertakers. [1:05:18] Mentions taking her sisters and the butcher’s children to school and the journey there. [1:05:53] Recalls her grandfather being a major in marines, her mother being a school teacher, her grandpa helping at a lodge, mentions the lodge taking convent over [1:05:50] Small mention of school inspectors, nuns’ ages, and description of exam system, having to leave school during the war to help father with business and other girls’ jobs. FC becomes a nurse for £12/year [1:10:35] Father remarries in 1914-15, mentions she didn’t get along with new wife, gets an interview at a hospital. [1:12:25] Description of grocers worked. [1:13:55] Mentions almost all tradesmen were freemasons and describes in detail Christmas parties at the Masonic Temple. [1:16:43] Mentions the worth of father’s estate being £60,000, father bought a cinema and left £70,000, mentions the distribution of what he left. [1:18:19] Fc says most people who pawned were labouring people and Navy people, describes the noise created on Saturday when people went to watch football. [1:19:42] Detailed description of mornings, mention of young men not using trams, description of night time routines- boys bringing dinner to fathers. [1:21:42] Detailed description of R.E. Church parade [1:23:46] FC mentions attending church three times a day, teaching at Sunday school when she was older.
Track 2: [1:34:43], [0:00:02] Description of what people pawned, blankets, shoes, false teeth, hair even false legs. Mentions playing with the false leg, another description of what people pawned. [0:02:28] Detailed description of how pawnbroking tickets and money were handled. [0:04:41] FC describes the sailors and what they brought to the pawn shop. Mentions they never had the money to redeem them. [0:06:58] Describes front shop and what was sold; a woman was employed to make navy flannel shirts. [0:09:21] Description of the woman, where she worked, what else she did and how much she was paid. [0:10:40] FC describes her job at her father’s furnishing shop. [0:11:34] Detailed description of the pawnbroking books, how it was handled and what was put in it. [0:13:00] FC describes the jewellery sorting process and what was done with the good and bad pile. [0:15:19] Small discussion of pricing, discussion of competition, mentions men’s working clothes being sold. [0:16:53] FC mentions dinner being taken to workers at night and the noise in the morning again. [0:17:50] Discussion of breaks and shifts at the shop. [0:18:50] Description of people stealing from the shop. [0:20:21] FC talks about going to church, says it was common to go to pawnbrokers, speaks of training a boy to manage the shop, mentions a woman she hated. [0:23:27] FC talks about bad living conditions: having to go through the shop to the toilets and mentions fleas. [0:24:34] Mentions being kept home due to fleas at school, mentions fleas in the clothes brought in and how they were stored and that they weren’t washed before resale. [0:26:20] Mentions list sent by police with stolen goods, a Pawnbrokers’ Gazette used to find stolen goods. Describes a theft attempt. [0:28:43] Description of shop layout on the street. [0:29:47] Recalls experience of going to school. [0:30:38] Recalls the price of things, £1 being a lot, allowance of 10 shillings for clothes. [0:32:35] Recalls furniture shop selling at least 3 pianos a week during war. [0:33:39] Price of pianos between £30 to £50, only certain people allowed credit, no credit for army or navy officers. [0:35:13] Describes arrangement after furnishing shop was opened. [0:36:18] Detailed description of living accommodation at the back of furnishing shop, mentions father buying and reselling properties. [0:38:06] Describes dockyard sales and what was sold in them. [0:39:39] FC recalls her father’s training and how he got his pawnbroking shop. [0:41:03] Detailed description of living accommodation at pawnbrokers, the sitting room, washroom and kitchen and the apartments at the top of the building. [0:44:01] Detailed description of sleeping arrangements, really hot summers, flea problems and type of beds they had. [0:45:42] FC describes her father dating, mentions going to convent as boarders during that time. [0:47:00] FC mentions her father’s jobs and describes how the freemasons all helped each other. [0:49:04] FC says maternal grandfather helped her father become a freemason, mentions meetings at night. [0:50:35] Describes her father’s social life including singing at a lodge and playing bowls, went only on Wednesdays. Description of her father’s attitude towards others, him going to church and bargaining. [0:54:37] FC talks about tuberculosis, how it was treated, having to pay for doctors. Mentions gas was expensive. Mentions her father being stingy with money and gives some examples: copying uniforms instead of buying them. [0:58:33] FC mentions the schooling of her step sisters. [1:00:00] FC discusses why she went to private school, mentions exams, describes who sat in during the exams. [01:02:55] Description of ‘politeness’ lessons, describes bible study and having Wednesday and Saturday afternoons off school, boarders doing darning and sewing during that time. [1:05:28] Describes going to Southampton during holidays, then talks about father’s second wife again. [1:07:30] Mentions getting clothes from dressmakers and describes the process in detail, mentions where underclothes, stockings and ribbons were bought. [1:09:00] Describes going to London at Maidavale to learn about nervous diseases. Detailed description of training, mentions not being allowed to start general training under 21 years old, and how to get into it. [1:11:47] Mentions society girls becoming paid probationers, called that because their parents paid for them. Says nursing was a high class profession. [1:12:28] Detailed description of how nurses interacted with each other based on their years of training. [1:13:26] FC describes what was needed to enter nursing as a profession: lower classes could not do it, says wages were too small to do it without help from home, £12/year wage. [1:14:43] FC mentions no financial help from her father, having to buy books for training, getting them for 25 shillings if lucky, points out it was a lot of money. [1:16:08] Starting salary in general training £12/year, going up maybe £2 or £3, says it was a struggle. [1:16:52] Describes living arrangements at Maidavale, getting accommodation, food and training for free. Says some people had to pay for it if they didn’t work in the hospital. [1:18:22] Detailed description of daily and weekly schedule. Says there was very little free time. [1:21:02] Describes Queen Alexandra’s nurses in Gillingham. [1:21:50] Describes her mother’s tuberculosis treatment again. [1:22:49] FC discusses careers for girls, most worked on the lines during the war building huts for the army. [1:23:47] FC mentions most girls were not meant to work, mentions her mother did not want her to work. Mother was a school teacher. [1:24:13] Mothers earning money described as unusual, unless they were widows. [1:25:08] Description of how they did the washing. [1:26:18] FC describes what kind of furniture was in the house, floors being lino with no rugs on top. [1:28:45] Talks about how mats were made, says they were not made in her home, talks about coco mating, says a lot of things were embroidered. [1:31:15] FC describes how they took baths, said three of them had only one lot of water. [1:32:04]Detailed description of nightly bedtime routine. [1:33:38] FC describes of how they washed their hair, mentions first shampoos coming out, mentions toothpaste was solid in a tin.
Summaries created by Amelia Bocksei, volunteer, February 2024.
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